Translation of a Spanish interview by Apoyo Positivo.
«What is and what is not madness? How cishetpatriarchal are the standards that define good and bad? What is madness and what is sanity?»
INDETECTABLES keeps growing as a project and as a series, and we are in the middle of the promotion and presentation of our third season PATRIARCADO (Patriarchy), while advancing in the production of LOCURA (Madness), our fourth season.
After SEXO, DROGAS Y TÚ (Sex, Drugs, and You) and ESTIGMA (Stigma), these latest two seasons come with a twist in the themesthat aims to address the needs, principles, values, and philosophies of Apoyo Positivo and all the communities we work with. HIV—the initial protagonist of the series and tip of the iceberg of all these stories—gives way to the elements that explain why HIV it’s not just a virus, but also the top of a system of stigmas about people (second season) that empowers a norm that it’s not explicit but it’s enforced: the patriarchy (third season).
Some have asked why are we talking about feminism on the series or why we are suddenly tackling mental health, given that our origins are rooted in HIV awareness. Well, we as an organization existing in this system of identities and social entities, must be a bit non-binary. We hold the idea that diversity and all its vulnerabilities must be tackled jointly.
While we keep showing you more about PATRIARCADO, we have found someone who explains the interconnections between the seasons of our series very well, the winner of the script contest for LOCURA: Caru Basakatua. As part of the season production, we organized a contest for short films and scripts that brought creativity and diversity to the project. Here you can read about Caru’s experiences and how they perceive and understand our series.
Enjoy the read, and in March … more INDETECTABLES!
We chat with Caru Basakatua, author of the winning script of the web series contest INDETECTABLES, titled “Desviación Típica” (Standard Deviation). Caru introduces themself as a “bilingual, queer, and Madrilenian writer interested in stories that explore and celebrate queer and non-normative experiences and identities, and that got a PhD just to be able to use "Dr." and never again have to choose between "Mr." and "Ms."
How did you come up with the idea for the script?
It’s a funny story: I write with my partner and we are working in several projects, all of them about queer themes and gender. And one of our collaborators—our sensitivity reader, David Orión Pena—told us about the contest. I met him years ago in a course about trans issues, and he is also a writer, an editor, and podcast producer. He sent me a text with the link to the contest, and I said to myself, let’s do it! Although honestly, I had no idea what to write about. When my partner and I went for a walk and started talking about different possibilities, the idea came up quite quickly, and the script was written in a couple of days.
The story starts in a place described as somber. Is it based on your own experience or friends’ experiences?
Everything on the script is a combination of my own experiences transitioning—I’m a transmasculine non-binary person—and friends’ experiences. It’s a combination of those experiences—including those of people I befriended on social media, where they share their horror stories about going to the endocrinologist, the psychiatrist, the psychologist … And also, one of the ideas was to really show the process of transitioning, which people talk a lot about while knowing very little, and how it can be very humiliating sometimes.
Currently, there is a lot of talk about trans people and transitioning, but not with the people who transition, about their experiences trying to navigate a system that is extremely binary and based on cishetpatriarchal stereotypes and roles.
And then, reading the contest guidelines, I found really interesting that the theme of the season was madness: What is and what is not madness, how cishetpatriarchal are the standards that define good and bad, what is considered madness and what is considered sanity, and all that.
There is a stark contrast between the actions described on the script, between what the doctor says and what the protagonist thinks. What did you want to express through those contrasts?
First of all, that the pathologization of trans identities is problematic by itself, basically because you are treating trans and non-binary people as minors, as if they don’t know what they do and do not want. This person, who knows more about you than yourself, has to come to tell you what you are or what you aren’t, or if you are sufficiently what you say you are. And also related to that, I wanted to show how gender stereotypes are applied to trans and non-binary people in a much more intense and cruel way than to cis people.
It’s basically a trap. To be able to access what you need as a trans or non-binary person—whether that means just hormones, hormones and surgery, or simply changing your legal gender—you have to fulfill these imposed requirements that are based in extremely backwards ideas of gender.
If you are a transmasculine person and have long hair, they are going to ask you why is you hair so long. And something else that is in the script and is a real thing: the underwear. They will snoop into the kind of underwear you use, when that does not depend exclusively on your gender. Imagine that you are a young person living with a family that doesn’t accept you or don’t know yet that you are trans, of course they are not going to buy you boxers! A lot of times is not about what you do, but what you can do in your context.
So, all those stereotypes are imposed on trans people in extreme and ridiculous ways. Especially on trans women, I would say, even more than on trans men. Trans women have to be hyperfeminine to be believed when they say that they are women. And then at the same time, some groups use that to attack them, saying that trans women are reinforcing gender roles and that wearing a skirt doesn’t make you a woman.
It’s a loop: if you fulfill the stereotypes you are reinforcing them, but if you don’t fulfill them you are not trans enough. So trans people find themselves in a particularly bad situation.
In the script we have a non-binary person thinking about what stereotypes they will have to abide by to be able to access the treatment they want, highlighting the gaps in the system. That’s something I wanted to show about the process, how humiliating it can be, how intrusive. For example, the issue of sexuality. If you are a transmasculine person, you have to be active, and very macho, and you have to like certain things. And if you are a transfemenine person then you have to be passive and it’s like … seriously?
These are things that are not asked of cis people. Nobody is going to approach a woman on the street with a short, Audrey Hepburn-style haircut, and say “Hey, maybe you are not cis because your hair is short.” I wanted to talk about all that in the story.
There are other, more positive moments in the script, shown through flashbacks. How did those moments come up?
That’s another thing I wanted to show: being trans is more than just dysphoria and suffering, it also has moments of euphoria, of feeling good with yourself, like when the protagonist is with their partner, or wearing their badges in their clothes and all that. Being trans is not being miserable all the time and then you have access to transition and you are happy forever. No, it’s like life is for everyone, you have your good moments and your bad moments. I also wanted to show that regarding gender.
The theme of madness is outlined from the very setting of the story: the “Unidad de Transtornos de la Identidad del Género” (Gender Identity Disorders Unit). What is your opinion on the name of this place?
It’s interesting that you ask that, because I have a PhD in Psychology. Psychology is a very fragmented discipline—despite what people think—and there are still many who may consider gender dissidence as a disorder. But I would say that is a minority whose vision is more similar to the psychiatric point of view than the psychological point of view. In my opinion, the pathologization of trans identities or trans dissidence is harmful because, yes, they are basically telling you that you are mentally ill. When you arrive, the first thing they do is take you to the psychiatrist and then to the psychologist, and it’s like, “Okay! I get the message.” But then, there is the additional issue of treating the person as if they were dysfunctional, as if they were unable to make their own decisions because they have this “problem”. I’m here to help you and tell you what’s best for you. That takes agency away from trans people and invalidates them—in that, telling them that what they feel or what they are is not normal, is not in line with the standards and therefore must be an illness. That’s basically the message you get.
And that can lead to problems like depression and anxiety, right?
Obviously. And that’s also interesting. The problems that trans people usually have: depression, anxiety, suicide attempts, eating disorders—that I also wanted to include on the script—have less to do with being trans or non-binary and more with being trans or non-binary in the cishetpatriarchal system. A system in which you are cisgender and heterosexual by default, until proven otherwise, and in which you are always going to be a weirdo, and exception, an outlier, and where you will have to deal with rejection and violence. That’s the origin of the problems, it’s not about being trans, it’s about being trans in this system.
What are your future plans after winning the contest and what are the odds of producing it?
My partner and I work on this, basically. My goal is to create the stories that I would have loved to see or that I want to see now in media, in film, series … the references that I lacked growing up. I’m thirty-two years old and started questioning my gender well into my twenties. I’d have liked to have references as a kid: people questioning their gender, not only binary trans people, but also non-binary people and queer people in general. Maybe I’d have realized earlier why some things felt the way they felt.
We have several projects going on, some quite advanced, and the plan is to bring to life those kinds of stories, especially for queer people, but also for non-queer people. To give them access to our world beyond the stereotypes written from cishet perspectives about our community. Recently I was watching a video about LGTBIQ+ bars and clubs in the South of the US and one person said “all that is made about us, without us, is not for us”. And that’s what I want: things made by us, about us, and for us. And, I don’t know, I think it is very necessary to put this kind of perspective and these kinds of stories out there.
As the winner of the best script award, how would you encourage other people to go ahead and tell their stories or express themselves thought film or art?
I think art is necessary—whether writing, painting, music, short stories, poetry, illustration, whatever the medium. Art is necessary in the world, especially to communicate perspectives that are non-normative. It’s probably the best way, as it has a special ability to transmit emotions and experiences, to reach people and connect with them. And I think that all the stories and all the experiences are valuable in some sense. If you have something to say, if you have something to tell, go ahead! I think that putting your story out there, telling your story, will make the world a better place.
DESVIACIÓN TÍPICA (STANDARD DEVIATION): SYNOPSIS
What happens when you are "abnormal" even by the standards of "abnormal"? When you can't even be "abnormal" in the right way, according to the labels available? And when your life depends on pretending that you are "abnormal", but in the right way?
River is a non-binary person, forced to navigate an extremely binary system. A system that reaches its greatest expression in the “units of gender identity disorders” (UTIG), where the imposition of cisheteropatriarchal gender roles is taken to absurd heights, where life-saving treatments are approved or denied based on hair length, type of underwear, or the way of having sex.
Images by Apoyo Positivo.
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